Pain from Playing!

[Dick Glasgow]

Recently I bought a wonderful old Æola Baritone, which weighs in at 2041g

Now it does have wrist straps but, foolishly I think, I lengthened them slightly shortly after it arrived, thinking they were too long! For two days after that my thumbs ached & they were actually weakened so badly that I could not open neither jars nor juice or medicine bottles, in fact I could hardly hold my Fiddle Bow & almost dropped it while performing at the Burns Supper!

I have of course re-set the straps to the original lengths.

I guess Colin Dipper really does know more than me after all, when it comes to Concertina Straps!

I'm hoping it was simply because I'd altered the straps. I'd hate to think I wasn't fit to play this lovely Concertina!

Has anyone ever tried one of those long neck straps that some folks use to support the weight?

I had no serious problems, apart from slight Pinkie pain, when I started playing English Treble Concertina, back in September.
I haven't had any problems either, playing my Æola Tenor Treble & that doesn't even have wrist straps.

I wonder, has anyone else here ever experienced this sort of pain?

Is it time for me to give up .......... & take up the Harmonica instead?

Cheers
Dick

[guran]

Dick,
I hadn't seen this Topic before since we have been into associated problems elsewhere but since another of my hobby-horses comes galloping here I have to say a few words...!

You ask:"Has anyone ever tried one of those long neck straps that some folks use to support the weight?"

...and I can only say: 'unfortunately Yes'... i.e if you mean the traditional neckstrap concept introduced in Victorian times and illustrated in old tutors, Warren's for example. It consists of "a fine cord" attached to some point at the ends of the instrument ,which is held with forearms horizontal (elbow angle 90 degrees)

Some people actually claim they use it and that it helps relieving the weight on the thumbs - which is partly true - but the concept is so profoundly dysfunctional that it can hardly be recommended, so don't ! What is wrong with it is this:
a) a fine cord is uncomfortable b) the neck is so vulnerable anyway for strain problems that nothing should be hanging around it really c) the jerky bellowsing causes a dyscomfort that makes it different from hanging for example a saxophone in a strap around the neck d) the recommended high instrument position is not suitable because according to basic mechanics you have to push the instrument away from the body by the thumbs/hands with a force equal to the weight of the instrument AND the 45 degree angle of the neckstrap will cause a force on the neck equal 1,4xthe weight of the instrument so in all the effort load is 2,4xthe weight of the instrument which illustrates that the concept is not ergonomically ideal at all.

So, very simple, you hang the instrument on one or both shoulders instead ! AND you use a low position with the instrument close to the body at almost stretched arms. You may find it all in my YouTube video "Neckstrap reformation" at "Gran43".

Try the traditional arrangement first ! Then I suggest you try a guitar strap or something alike over one shoulder.( The strap goes over the arm you prefer doing the major bellowsing with and under the other). To fasten the shoulder strap (or neckstrap for experimenting) you fasten first a ca 20-25cm long 6-8mm wide leather strap between two endbolts each sida (not two adjacent ones but leaving one between) and onto this intermediate strap you can fixate the real strap by means of clips used for braces and then you can adjust the balancing point according to your personal comfortable playing position.

I use elastic straps for my part, either one over one shoulder or two by simply loosening the front ends of the braces and attaching them to the trousers. You find it all in the video.

This concept offers a comfortable aid for playing standing and one advantage with elastic straps is that they offer support at varying arm positions and without feeling any jerks from bellowsing.

Goran

[Dick Glasgow]

Goran,

Here's Pauline de Snoo playing on the video that made me think of the neckstap

Looks like it might be OK for a tune or two, but I really wouldn't fancy playing in a session for three hours, with a Baritone hanging from my neck!

I found your own video on the subject, which makes for interesting viewing. The shoulder approach does make a lot of sense & if I were ever to consider playing, standing up, I would certainly invest in that last double shoulder strap.

Lots of good food for thought from you Goran, as usual .... thanks.

Cheers
Dick

[guran]

Dick,
Glad to hear you found some thoughtful bits in my chattering! Came to think about another issue people seemingly don't use to consider...that is using the stap supporting concept while sitting also which may sound silly at first but it isn't at all. If tou want to change posture - varying between sitting and standing - your instrument position usually will change too and that can be a bit confusing. You know by now I advocate for the low playing position when standing.In order to maintain that position while seated a high footstool may be perfect and in that case the shoulder strap arrangement helps also when seated without any adjustment.

This can be seen as an alternative also in the case that for some reason you don't wish to adopt the "fanning" method working the bellows.By using shoulder(neck?!?) straps while sitting with a fairly big instrument this is a way to come around some awkwardness that the combination of 'cross-the-bellows-strap' and "fanning" may cause from being unaccustomed to it. Never the less in my opinion the advantages from changing to those methods likely pay off in the long run.

I noticed I was in a hurry writing the previous message. I attach the front ends of the loosened braces to the intermediate straps at the *instrument* of course - not to the "trousers" as I said.
And as you saw on the video adding the back ends of the braces to the instrument as well offers a very stable hanging up of of the instrument. (Depending on the composition of the audience some additional security for the trousers may be in place...)

I know that Pauline who is a very competent and educated player speaks for the traditional Victorian neckstrap. So does Wim Wakker. In my view they do so in some bit of unconscious resignation, not having thoroughly experimented with the alternatives, but maybe having found that for their own part the old method works acceptably after all. Wakker only uses a treble and in the Victorian situation the instrument weight is of some influence as I said before due to the load on the neck (which absolutely should be eliminated! Once strain problems in the neck region get established they can be awfully difficult getting rid of - if you ever do...a real disaster..)

PS. I added a couple of new videos yesterday.I did the Tango Uno for instance standing with the baritone treble (weight almost 3000g by the way..) just trying to illustrate how easy things can be with a proper 'handle'. No shoulder strap...

Goran

[ishtar]

Goran, what a lovely, lovely accent you have. I could listen to you all day.

Your videos interested me because I play the English in a sea shanty group, and out of 15 of us (11 singers, 2 guitarists, an accordion diatonique, and me), I'm the only one who needs to sit down!

So I'm going to be a bit girlie and ask how exactly I can attach at least the hand-straps to my English. Does it involve drilling holes in my concertina? I'm not sure I'm brave enough to do that!

Tack!

[guran]

ishtar,

Very glad to hear that you liked my howling !

1) Concerning hand straps.
Sometimes instruments are fitted with an inlaid nut for one end and a wood-screw hole fo the other end of traditional "wrist straps" and then I usually use these for my "hand straps". Mostly, when using my "full ergonomic concept" ( steady thumb staps, wrist support, hand straps and fittings for shoulder straps ) I mount all of it to a base plate fixated by three of the original endbolts or better three extra long ones. You can maybe see it here:

ED! An Ergonomic Handle For English, Anglo And Duet Concertinas By Goran Rahm

If you don't have any originally prepared holes for "wriststraps" I would not for my part drill any holes for that purpose since in my opinion as you may have noticed traditional wrist straps do not work satisfactory so what I recommend is to adopt the base plate for a start just to fixate the handstraps and maybe to try the shoulder strap idea and then you have the bonus to very easily add the wrist support which I mean actually is necessary to get the hand straps working all right. You are welcome to get more details ( drawings and photos if you like) on how to arrange things if you send a message to
ED! [e-mail]

2) Concerning shoulder straps.
I am fully aware that my proposition 'bracing' the concertina to the trousers is not very appealing for women. If you do want to make it easier to play standing along with your company I really suggest to try the 'strap over one shoulder - arrangement'. A broad guitar or camera strap at first and better still an elastic strap and these you can attach to the instrument very easily just by an intermediate leather strap ( say 6-8mm wide, 20-25cm long) fixated to two endbolts each side and the shoulder strap in turn fixated to the intermediate strap by clips like used for suspenders. Maybe try that at the very first - (before handstraps) - since this in real is the prime arrangement anyway for playing standing comfortably !
(Keep in mind that you better use a low position of the instrument when playing and the instrument close to the body standing, NOT as people mostly do it - with horisontal forearms pushing the instrument away from the body)
Goran